CartYesterday, Internetwork Expert put on a show that was promoted heavily as a “major corporate announcement.” Yes, I am serious, that’s what they called it. What a show it was!
Fascinated, I watched the big announcements again carefully and thought I’d share some of my own, personal thoughts about the way I personally perceived the news…
ANNOUNCEMENT #1: 10 months ago, IE decided NOT to take part in Cisco’s 360 program
The main theme of their webcast/commercial was about how they DIDN’T join Cisco’s CLP (Cisco Learning Partner) program and are not going to sell the 360 training; a decision they apparently made 10 months ago. Since when does deciding NOT to do something 10 months ago qualify as news, worthy of such hype? Maybe next week we can learn how Brian decided NOT to go skydiving or some other “almost/maybe could have, but decided not to” kind of event.
There were some questionable statements made throughout the presentation… starting with the FIRST slide!
“We were honored to be selected to participate in the development and delivery of the 360 program.” (0:01:30)
Oh, really?
The truth is, Cisco put this project out to bid in a RFP to a dozen or so training entities. As Brian points out himself later in their commercial, “we had the option to sell our self-paced training to Cisco.” (0:02:06) It turned out that Cisco was hoping to pay much less for the materials than IE (or IPexpert) would be willing to accept. The process had little to do with being “honored to be selected.”
“If we became a Cisco Learning Partner, we could not focus our business outside of the U.S. It has to be within North America.” (0:03:30)
Wrong.
Basically, Cisco Learning Partners are able to sell/market in any “theater” they desire, provided they are approved to do so and agree to pay the “royalties” (referred to by many as the “Cisco tax”) for activities in the other regions. While IE may have found doing so undesirable (as IPexpert did when we were a CLP), Brian’s statement was untrue and was repeated multiple times.
Later in the presentation, Brian talks about the requirements Cisco has for CLPs, saying that they would have to sell a certain number of “kits.” (0:08:35) Actually, when IPexpert was a CLP, there was a benchmark set for revenue, not kits. On the very next slide, Brian claims that IE will do $5MM in business this year. If that’s true, they would have easily surpassed the revenue benchmarks set for CLPs.
I’m wondering if IE will become a CLP if Brian decides to actually read the contracts. Maybe someday.
More about IE’s decision-making process…
“Back in December timeframe, the January timeframe, we knew we weren’t going to participate.” (0:13:19)
OUCH! But that doesn’t help your other point…
IE customers have been clamoring lately (places like Group Study) for their long-promised product updates. During the presentation, Brian suggests that they haven’t delivered updated products because of lingering decisions about the 360 program. In fact, one of the slides reads, “This has caused a delay in our release schedule while the decision was being considered.” Well, if his customers weren’t already puzzled by the above quote, Brian later reiterates, “we pretty much knew back in December of 2007 that we were not going to participate in the 360 program.” (0:25:20)
“… with the scholarship program, we give away three full-blown scholarships…” (0:05:15)
Yeah, and… ?
While I do praise them for their generosity, Brian’s repeated claims of IE being a $4-5 million company left me wondering why they don’t do more. This year, I am pleased to say that IPexpert gave away well over $100,000.00 of CCIE training… and didn’t make people beg for it in written essays. As I write this, I’m thinking of some things IPexpert can do for the unfortunate candidates that don’t write a good enough essay to win IE’s “scholarship.” Stay tuned for an announcement on that! :)
“We could be charging more!” Brian says somebody told him that CCIE training is underpriced.
Charge more?
After the Tolly Group report showed the offset in value, as advertised by IPexpert and IE product and course offerings, IE rushed to make changes. (I believe these findings led to more of IE’s announcements yesterday as well.) The point is, I don’t think it would be wise for IE to charge more (though I wouldn’t mind it).
ANNOUNCEMENT #2: IE catches up to its competitors with business and product delivery concepts, then calls their revelations “CCIE 2.0″
Hey, everyone, CCIE 2.0 is here! Judging by recent Group Study threads, I’m guessing some customers are wishing Internetwork Expert finished their CCIE 1.0 first. Anyhow, drop whatever you’re doing because IE has some big ideas…
- Mailing lists (1:05:30)
Obviously, this isn’t a new idea at all. In fact, after using Group Study for years to build the reputation/visibility of himself and IE, it was my impression that Brian was bashing Group Study directly when he said he “won’t name it, but a public mailing list” is “80% junk, so much junk, you just leave.” (1:30:00) Brian’s new list isn’t going to have any OTs so don’t worry about that!
- CCIE candidate blogs with ratings. (1:07:20) I wonder where they got that idea.
On the topic of blogging, Brian expressed great concern about the bloggers being “backed by other companies.” He wondered, “are they getting something to say something, and that’s exactly the thing that people don’t want with blogs.” (1:07:50) That’s funny; earlier this year, IPexpert approached some bloggers that were displaying IE banners to see if they would also display an IPexpert banner. Often, we were told that they were given free and/or discounted IE products in exchange for their blogging, so “the Brians won’t let them” advertise IPexpert, too.
But now, with IE’s CCIE 2.0 explosion, Brian wants to “keep these blogs clean. We want to keep these vendor-neutral.” This should be interesting to watch, since he predicts IE will be paying out over $10K per month to helpful bloggers. (1:10:20) I wonder if any will be rewarded for talking about IPexpert or Narbik or CCbootcamp.
Seeing how they treat customers that choose to work with more than just IE, I don’t think Brian will be too “vendor-neutral.” (There are more victims than just Larry H., sorry to say.)
- More interaction with the instructors
After talking a LOT about how customers are going to have much more interaction with the instructors (singling himself out, specifically), it appears to me that most of the interaction will be with “Customer Success Managers” (who are still in training right now!) and those people will report to Brian. (0:30:00) He says, “in the early days, people would just email Brian or myself, but the Customer Success Managers are now those people,” adding, “these are the people you are going to communicate with.” Also, “when we were a small company, people could talk to me directly.” (0:52:10)
- Poly-Labs will revolutionize everything!
Brian tells how their Poly-Labs output will provide the student with recommendations, claiming “nobody else does that.” (1:01:50)
Is that so?
Actually, Proctor Labs has a very robust grading system that provides students with remedial learning suggestions as well as up to 10 hours of video tutorial for EACH graded lab. In each lengthy video, the instructor walks the student through the lab, step-by-step. It may not be “Polymorphic,” but our customers seem to like it!
- Lots more Class on Demand (1:13)
There is going to be 40 hours of Class on Demand added every month. “Nobody can beat that!”
Try to keep the breaks short, OK?
My understanding is that some IE COD videos are left with the breaks in the recording. While I admit that I have not verified this with my own eyes, Brian repeatedly makes comments in the presentation like “4 hours long… 5 with the breaks.” Why not do some basic post-production work, so the advertised length of videos actually represents lecture / learning time?
Also, when you get to CCIE 3.0, try producing your videos in high-definition. Students love it! :)
- Regular, perpetual updates to products
“People ask us all the time, ‘when is version 5 of volume 1 going to be done?’ It’s never going to be done.” (0:37:00)
After reading some recent Group Study posts, that won’t come as a shock to some IE customers.
Brian talked a lot about the problem of “long delays between updates,” promising that “we’re going to have constant updates… we want to get into this evolution of constant, perpetual updates.” (0:35:30)
Hey, now you’re catching on! At IPexpert, our R&S products were completely updated again and released this summer. Earlier this month, I spent time with one of our valued customers that provided some great feedback and suggestions for our Volume 1 Worbook and Proctor Guide. Wayne and I discussed it and had Tyson Scott dedicate two weeks making improvements to several sections. The updated files were immediately made available to all customers that owned that product.
So I can tell you from a company already providing regular, perpetual updates, this “new idea” you have should be a hit!
ANNOUNCEMENT #3: IE is Self-Proclaimed “Largest CCIE Trainer in Cisco”
Yes, that is a bold statement for Brian to make, but he was ready to back it up with facts…
“Let me tell you all the companies we beat out to become the largest CCIE trainer inside of Cisco. And that’s us!” (0:14:07)
No, I didn’t edit that. That’s what he said.
If you’re wondering if you read that quote wrong, you didn’t. It was just another of many incoherent statements throughout this big announcement.
Trying to back up the point, he adds, “when we competed against the other vendors for business inside of Cisco, we took that business!” (0:14:38) That’s strange; I wonder how IPexpert has been able to perform dozens of on-site Boot Camps for Cisco. We’ll stop taking what’s yours, Brian, and I’ll ask Narbik and Brad to have the same courtesy. Can we at least sell into your classes?
Expanding on the point that IE does so much business with Cisco, he admits, “we’ll probably lose this business because they’ll be forced to go to the 360 program, but that’s fine.” Yeah, I bet he thinks it’s fine to lose “two weeks a month on average” of training! (0:15:08)
ANNOUNCEMENT #4: IE getting into lower-level certs
What a coincidence! Just 10 days after IPexpert announces IPexpert University, Brian announces that IE is also “going to start going into the Associate and Professional levels.” (1:19:45)
Interestingly, Brian claims that he, along will Anthony, Scott, Petr and Brian will be the ones teaching all those different classes! (1:25:30) And the existing CCIE courses? That is amazing!
Other Observations
Seemingly missing from the event:
- Is Scott Morris really an IE employee? Except for the occasional Group Study post from an IE email account, he seems elusive. Not even a “hello” during the big announcement and just a couple passing mentions by the Brians.
- Also missing was the prior effort to proof read the slides for typos. It seems like a Major Corporate Announcement would call for a proof reading session, but I guess that’s something Brian thinks the bad “marketing people” and MBA-types would insist on.
Top 10 Contradictions & Other Wild Statements
- There were supposedly 500 people registered for this big announcement (1:39:25)… but only 2 questions. Strange!
- Brian charges that “Cisco Systems creates the market for Test King.” (0:22:25)
- Brian states that he, Anthony, Scott, Petr and Brian will be the ones teaching their Associate and Professional-level courses. (1:25:30) We’ll see about that.
- Talking about the scholarships, “We started this recently, but we’ve been doing this for years.” (0:05:20)
- “I was involved in a lot of start-ups. Not a lot of start-ups, a few start-ups.” (0:34:05)
- Pumping up the Poly-Labs launch, they are “actually in beta now. Actually, alpha I guess, technically. Alpha or beta.” (0:42:30)
- About the guy writing their assessment labs, “his PhD is in eLearning,” then “he’s working on his PhD thesis in eLearning.” (0:57:50)
- After repeated reassurance that he is not concerned about profits (only customers!), Brian reveals that if IE signed on to offer the 360 program, “it would take away half of our revenue right off the top… at least half… maybe even more right off the top.” (0:11:30)
- Brian states that they NEVER deny a requested date to retake a class. You pick a date, you get it! (1:17:17) But how could this be if “every single 12 Day Bootcamp we run is sold out“? One of these claims cannot be true – sorry!
- “This is key.” Since so many topics were prefaced with, “this is key,” I assume that either some were not really key, or there were just way too many key points. And that’s key!
Some other notable moments:
- It was funny when Brian referred to Bruce and Val as, “the most respected instructors out there…” all the while beating up their product line.
- “We do charge for the rack time to resit a class,” admits Brian. (1:17:17) Hey, thanks for leaving some downfalls in tact after the Tolly Group report was released!
- 100 racks soon, 400 later! LOL…
NOTICE TO THE HARDCORE IE FANS
If you plan to refute any of my comments, PLEASE HURRY UP and verify what I’ve said first. I tried to help you out by providing time stamps for you to get around quickly! You see, after the Tolly Group report was released comparing IPexpert’s CCIE R&S offering to Internetwork Expert’s, they quickly made changes to their website in order to refute what was already documented. So act fast!
A TRUE EXAMPLE OF IRONY
During the presentation, Brian warns his followers
“Don’t get fooled by fancy marketing or misconceptions out there.” (1:17:17)
Oh, I think they’re catching on, Brian!
Can’t wait for next week’s 2-hour presentation on the Polymorphic Supercharged Gizmotron 3000.
Thanks for reading! Your comments are welcome…
Tags: 360, brian, Cisco, clp, ie, internetwork expert, partner
Moty,
Now that was an objective post! Thanks for the insight. It added much to the debate. :)
- Matt
Moty,
Now that was an objective post! Thanks for the insight. It added much to the debate. :)
- Matt
Matt, if you go up or down, right or left, on the earth or to the moon, IE is the best. No matter how far you go with this war they were and always will remain the best. May GOD have mercy on your soul. I never ever heard IE bashing IPEXPERT, nor Narbik, nor any vendor, on the contrary of that, i see every body else bashing them! why? if you wanna be successful like them go ahead, work hard and get it, but you wont win customers by bashing them, it will make you worse. Edit my post if you like but i took a snapshot of my post to prove how you are fair and honest (If you are!!) Worm regards Matt and Narbik
Matt, if you go up or down, right or left, on the earth or to the moon, IE is the best. No matter how far you go with this war they were and always will remain the best. May GOD have mercy on your soul. I never ever heard IE bashing IPEXPERT, nor Narbik, nor any vendor, on the contrary of that, i see every body else bashing them! why? if you wanna be successful like them go ahead, work hard and get it, but you wont win customers by bashing them, it will make you worse. Edit my post if you like but i took a snapshot of my post to prove how you are fair and honest (If you are!!) Worm regards Matt and Narbik
well,i am currently at my CCNP level, but i do read post on IPexpert and Internetworkexpert reqularly. first of all i beleive that the ventor product comparison should be left to candidate who use them rather than ventors spending time and trashing out error made by one another.
i do enjoy competition as long as it is healthy because it would give the ventors sleepless night and force them to come up with better ideas to improve the product and service the end user well.
my point is that ipexpert should encourage their instructors to write up post on topic , so that pple will get to know them . on a final NOTE IPEXPERT PRODUCT AND IE PRODUCT are good and they complement each other alot.
thanks
well,i am currently at my CCNP level, but i do read post on IPexpert and Internetworkexpert reqularly. first of all i beleive that the ventor product comparison should be left to candidate who use them rather than ventors spending time and trashing out error made by one another.
i do enjoy competition as long as it is healthy because it would give the ventors sleepless night and force them to come up with better ideas to improve the product and service the end user well.
my point is that ipexpert should encourage their instructors to write up post on topic , so that pple will get to know them . on a final NOTE IPEXPERT PRODUCT AND IE PRODUCT are good and they complement each other alot.
thanks
Hi Matt-
In addition with my previous statement -
Today , I have used IE my primary resource and IPexpert as secondary for R&S but I have purchased all the products from both of them so tell me where is the loss? I am constantly refering both worbook and COD for my prepartion. if I move to CCIE voice next year , I will reverse the primary and secondary path but the bottom line is that after netmasterclass stupid judgement (360 really suck!!!!!), only you and IE are available who provide the self-placed training outside of America , I am from Asia and it is really easy for me to use your online products as a self-placed training resources. It is also cheaper solution for us to purchase self-placed product and do study anytime from anywhere and it is only possible by you and IE so thanks both this renowned training companies.
Indeed , There is big market for both companies and I happy that your BLS is product is also equally worthwhile for purchase. Indeed , this is a real hard work to produce such type of products.
IPexpert has still quality of trainers and Manpower that can make sure that IPexpert should be in successful in present and as well as in future.
Always remember, competition is always good. My best wishes for both companies – Regards Amit Chopra
Hi Matt-
In addition with my previous statement -
Today , I have used IE my primary resource and IPexpert as secondary for R&S but I have purchased all the products from both of them so tell me where is the loss? I am constantly refering both worbook and COD for my prepartion. if I move to CCIE voice next year , I will reverse the primary and secondary path but the bottom line is that after netmasterclass stupid judgement (360 really suck!!!!!), only you and IE are available who provide the self-placed training outside of America , I am from Asia and it is really easy for me to use your online products as a self-placed training resources. It is also cheaper solution for us to purchase self-placed product and do study anytime from anywhere and it is only possible by you and IE so thanks both this renowned training companies.
Indeed , There is big market for both companies and I happy that your BLS is product is also equally worthwhile for purchase. Indeed , this is a real hard work to produce such type of products.
IPexpert has still quality of trainers and Manpower that can make sure that IPexpert should be in successful in present and as well as in future.
Always remember, competition is always good. My best wishes for both companies – Regards Amit Chopra
Thanks for the comments, Amit.
Thanks for the comments, Amit.
Hi Matt, – Let me tell you one honest statement , I have product from both vendors (IE and IPExpert) and I must tell you both are very good and equally number 1. also I must say that we should not spend our time to find out “Who is best?” leave this question to us. Every CCIE candidate always choose one vendor as a primary and another one as a secondary so someone choose IE as primary and other choose IPexpert as primary resource for their preparation hence the bottom line is that both vendor products are a number 1 choice for CCIE preparation .
CCIE candidates do not bother about Tolly or Solly report because we know the answer. Spend the time to improve your products , there is always room for improvement.
- Regards
Amit Chopra
Hi Matt, – Let me tell you one honest statement , I have product from both vendors (IE and IPExpert) and I must tell you both are very good and equally number 1. also I must say that we should not spend our time to find out “Who is best?” leave this question to us. Every CCIE candidate always choose one vendor as a primary and another one as a secondary so someone choose IE as primary and other choose IPexpert as primary resource for their preparation hence the bottom line is that both vendor products are a number 1 choice for CCIE preparation .
CCIE candidates do not bother about Tolly or Solly report because we know the answer. Spend the time to improve your products , there is always room for improvement.
- Regards
Amit Chopra
Andrew,
Point taken! ;)
- Matt
Andrew,
Point taken! ;)
- Matt
OK, can we just be done with the childish rebuttals? If the people at IE and IPX want to refute/rebut each others’ marketing stuff, do it without the cheap shots. They don’t help your cases anyways. If anything, they will turn an objective reader off.
OK, can we just be done with the childish rebuttals? If the people at IE and IPX want to refute/rebut each others’ marketing stuff, do it without the cheap shots. They don’t help your cases anyways. If anything, they will turn an objective reader off.
Matt,
When I said lack of facts I more meant that I must have misplaced my CLP contract I know its around here somewhere if you get my drift. :) Most of us I expect are way on the outside and really don’t have a reference for the facts.
Andrew
Matt,
When I said lack of facts I more meant that I must have misplaced my CLP contract I know its around here somewhere if you get my drift. :) Most of us I expect are way on the outside and really don’t have a reference for the facts.
Andrew
Hey, Andrew. I think those were the best comments so far. Thoughtful, impartial, constructive and in a positive spirit. Thank you for all of that!
I’m not clear on which points you find lacking proof, but I’d be happy to expand on / back up any of my statements. Believe me, I expected my comments to draw great scrutiny, so I was careful to be sure I was well-grounded. On my corrections regarding the Cisco CLP and 360 involvement, my points are all based in Cisco’s own contracts and RFPs. Black and white, no opinions of mine. That’s why I was surprised (or maybe not) to see them misrepresented by Brian in the “honored to be selected” kind of comments. I cannot question someone’s motives, but either Brian honestly did not understand how the CLP and 360 programs worked or he was banking on his audience not knowing enough to call him out on misstatements. About #9, it seems to me that, if a particular class is “sold out” (implying that it has reached capacity, no more seats available), then by definition, you would have to deny a student’s retake request for that date. So, by extension, if “all of the classes are sold out,” then certainly some retake request must be denied. Look, this isn’t a big deal. It doesn’t matter to me whether they are able to “fill” a class or not (whatever that means). But an obvious marketing statement, later contradicted by another should be brought to attention by someone, IMHO. Maybe I’m wrong. I have been before! ;)
I’ll leave it to Wayne respond to the points you directed toward him, but I would like to direct you to Mark’s blog post from last week: http://tinyurl.com/blog-mark-snow
We do plan for regular engagement from our instructors on this blog. We are absolutely proud of them, their achievements and the positive feedback they get from your peers! You are right, though, we do keep them very busy teaching courses and vLectures, developing and updating products and supporting our customers through various outlets.
I’d point out, though, that our aim has been to build a company able to stand on the merits of its reputation and viability as a company; not solely dependent on any one individual. In contrast, several of the vendors have built and maintain their business with themselves (individuals) as the foundation. That’s a fine way to operate, so long as those figureheads are around and there is peace among them. The trouble is, if they get “hit by the proverbial bus,” their company is in peril, likely leaving its customers out of luck in many ways.
Thanks again for the great post, Andrew!
Hey, Andrew. I think those were the best comments so far. Thoughtful, impartial, constructive and in a positive spirit. Thank you for all of that!
I’m not clear on which points you find lacking proof, but I’d be happy to expand on / back up any of my statements. Believe me, I expected my comments to draw great scrutiny, so I was careful to be sure I was well-grounded. On my corrections regarding the Cisco CLP and 360 involvement, my points are all based in Cisco’s own contracts and RFPs. Black and white, no opinions of mine. That’s why I was surprised (or maybe not) to see them misrepresented by Brian in the “honored to be selected” kind of comments. I cannot question someone’s motives, but either Brian honestly did not understand how the CLP and 360 programs worked or he was banking on his audience not knowing enough to call him out on misstatements. About #9, it seems to me that, if a particular class is “sold out” (implying that it has reached capacity, no more seats available), then by definition, you would have to deny a student’s retake request for that date. So, by extension, if “all of the classes are sold out,” then certainly some retake request must be denied. Look, this isn’t a big deal. It doesn’t matter to me whether they are able to “fill” a class or not (whatever that means). But an obvious marketing statement, later contradicted by another should be brought to attention by someone, IMHO. Maybe I’m wrong. I have been before! ;)
I’ll leave it to Wayne respond to the points you directed toward him, but I would like to direct you to Mark’s blog post from last week: http://tinyurl.com/blog-mark-snow
We do plan for regular engagement from our instructors on this blog. We are absolutely proud of them, their achievements and the positive feedback they get from your peers! You are right, though, we do keep them very busy teaching courses and vLectures, developing and updating products and supporting our customers through various outlets.
I’d point out, though, that our aim has been to build a company able to stand on the merits of its reputation and viability as a company; not solely dependent on any one individual. In contrast, several of the vendors have built and maintain their business with themselves (individuals) as the foundation. That’s a fine way to operate, so long as those figureheads are around and there is peace among them. The trouble is, if they get “hit by the proverbial bus,” their company is in peril, likely leaving its customers out of luck in many ways.
Thanks again for the great post, Andrew!
Matt,
I do not disagree directly with any of your points except maybe #9 in which Brians comment and his classes being sold out are not really mutually exclusive. The problem I see is this is basically all hearsay, neither you or IE give any real evidence so the reader is left to believe who they trust or what passes their BS filter. I feel both companies have their strengths and weaknesses. IE’s weaknesses have been discussed in great detail here, and while a few of their strengths have been acknowledged most have been ignored or slighted. I think if your post read a bit more objective that some of these previous comments would not have been made and people might be able to take it more seriously.
Wayne,
I agree with your mention that we need to remove the emotion and compare the products apples to apples. IPexpert does many things well regular updates, high quality video and audio, active well maintained forum and mailing list to list a few. The problem is a candidate can’t compare products in this fashion as they own neither when considering a purchase. What is available for comparison is the price, the free material and the instructors. I think the prices are similar with a few exceptions, and that the free materials available are comparable as well. The issue I see is I know more about Brian, Brian, Petr, Scott and Anthony than I do about any of your instructors Vik, Mark, Tyson, or Jarod. Now whether you attribute this to them being active in the community or being spammers could be debated and is probably a matter of perspective.
I think the important point to look at is that in my case this situation exists and Wayne you seem to allude it is not limited to just me. I am actually a little embarassed to say this, but all though I knew the IPexpert instructor names I actually had to look them up to make sure. It took me a minute to remember I could click on the bloggers tab above, before that I had been searching the site and could easily find press releases and successful candidates, but no mention of your instructors. This situation would simply never exist at IE as their instructors are displayed with pride at their site. You have spoken of your instructors with pride on other forums let this reflect in your site. Even though this blog isn’t that old its still suprising there aren’t any posts from the instructors. I actually think the best marketing tool on the Ipexperts site is Jarods strategy video which although maybe not as professionally edited as some of your other products gives a glimpse of who he is. With little knowledge of one side can one really be expected to not make their decision in part to an emotional attachment to the other?
Just some thoughts from a customer with a real name. ;)
Andrew
Matt,
I do not disagree directly with any of your points except maybe #9 in which Brians comment and his classes being sold out are not really mutually exclusive. The problem I see is this is basically all hearsay, neither you or IE give any real evidence so the reader is left to believe who they trust or what passes their BS filter. I feel both companies have their strengths and weaknesses. IE’s weaknesses have been discussed in great detail here, and while a few of their strengths have been acknowledged most have been ignored or slighted. I think if your post read a bit more objective that some of these previous comments would not have been made and people might be able to take it more seriously.
Wayne,
I agree with your mention that we need to remove the emotion and compare the products apples to apples. IPexpert does many things well regular updates, high quality video and audio, active well maintained forum and mailing list to list a few. The problem is a candidate can’t compare products in this fashion as they own neither when considering a purchase. What is available for comparison is the price, the free material and the instructors. I think the prices are similar with a few exceptions, and that the free materials available are comparable as well. The issue I see is I know more about Brian, Brian, Petr, Scott and Anthony than I do about any of your instructors Vik, Mark, Tyson, or Jarod. Now whether you attribute this to them being active in the community or being spammers could be debated and is probably a matter of perspective.
I think the important point to look at is that in my case this situation exists and Wayne you seem to allude it is not limited to just me. I am actually a little embarassed to say this, but all though I knew the IPexpert instructor names I actually had to look them up to make sure. It took me a minute to remember I could click on the bloggers tab above, before that I had been searching the site and could easily find press releases and successful candidates, but no mention of your instructors. This situation would simply never exist at IE as their instructors are displayed with pride at their site. You have spoken of your instructors with pride on other forums let this reflect in your site. Even though this blog isn’t that old its still suprising there aren’t any posts from the instructors. I actually think the best marketing tool on the Ipexperts site is Jarods strategy video which although maybe not as professionally edited as some of your other products gives a glimpse of who he is. With little knowledge of one side can one really be expected to not make their decision in part to an emotional attachment to the other?
Just some thoughts from a customer with a real name. ;)
Andrew
My apologies Cindy (and others)! I should have used a different scenario; gender definitely has nothing to do with technical aptitude!
Matt, I wasn’t implying that your statements were inaccurate and in fact agree a great deal with you. I was speaking in general really, not necessarily just about this specific thread.
I just think that time and effort would be better spent on material updates and development rather than compiling graphs, hiring independent firms etc. to make comparisons…although I should also be watching a debug ip ospf packet rather than engaging in this blog, huh? :)
Continue to develop superior products that speak for themselves — this will drive competition, and to me a referral from someone who’s used a product and recommends it is better than any other advertising.
My apologies Cindy (and others)! I should have used a different scenario; gender definitely has nothing to do with technical aptitude!
Matt, I wasn’t implying that your statements were inaccurate and in fact agree a great deal with you. I was speaking in general really, not necessarily just about this specific thread.
I just think that time and effort would be better spent on material updates and development rather than compiling graphs, hiring independent firms etc. to make comparisons…although I should also be watching a debug ip ospf packet rather than engaging in this blog, huh? :)
Continue to develop superior products that speak for themselves — this will drive competition, and to me a referral from someone who’s used a product and recommends it is better than any other advertising.
Uh oh, Jim… I think Cindy’s calling you out for sexist remarks! :)
Good to hear from you, Cindy.
Uh oh, Jim… I think Cindy’s calling you out for sexist remarks! :)
Good to hear from you, Cindy.
Jim, I was thinking that you all sound like a bunch of high school boys fighting over their sports teams. I guess it is all based on one’s perspective?
Jim, I was thinking that you all sound like a bunch of high school boys fighting over their sports teams. I guess it is all based on one’s perspective?
Jim,
Great points! I can tell you that Juniper training *is* included in the business plan for IPexpert University: http://www.imakenews.com/ipexpert/e_article001232607.cfm?x=b11,0,w
Regarding the “vendor bashing”, I don’t agree with that characterization, not at least in the example of my blog post that started this conversation. If there is a point in there that is untrue, I will promptly make the correction and publicly apologize it. Please point it out. When a vendor makes completely false statements, you should WANT them to be called out and kept honest, and that’s what my post did (each with time stamps so you can easily check for yourself). OK, OK… maybe I was having some fun with the Top 10 list part of it, but #9 does point out yet another of Brian’s obviously false claims. Again, if I was wrong on any of the points, please let me know!
Jim,
Great points! I can tell you that Juniper training *is* included in the business plan for IPexpert University: http://www.imakenews.com/ipexpert/e_article001232607.cfm?x=b11,0,w
Regarding the “vendor bashing”, I don’t agree with that characterization, not at least in the example of my blog post that started this conversation. If there is a point in there that is untrue, I will promptly make the correction and publicly apologize it. Please point it out. When a vendor makes completely false statements, you should WANT them to be called out and kept honest, and that’s what my post did (each with time stamps so you can easily check for yourself). OK, OK… maybe I was having some fun with the Top 10 list part of it, but #9 does point out yet another of Brian’s obviously false claims. Again, if I was wrong on any of the points, please let me know!
A few thoughts…
#1 – I’ve sat thru some Cisco authorized training courses delivered by their largest training partner, about five altogether over my career. With the exception of one of those, it was obvious the instructor met the minimum requirements to deliver the course and in fact did not have exposure to the technology in a real world application.
I think I can vouch for the 99% of those actively studying for the CCIE lab (in any track) that are in hands-on support roles or are network engineers in the real world — WE WANT INSTRUCTORS TO HAVE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TECHNOLOGIES -AND- PRACTICAL APPLICATION OF THEM IN PRODUCTION ENVIRONMENTS!
#2 – Forget the associate and professional-level Cisco training — start developing Juniper professional and expert-level training material!!!
#3 – Someone PLEASE step-up and be the adult here and refrain from the vendor bashing…you all sound like high school girls, geez. :)
A few thoughts…
#1 – I’ve sat thru some Cisco authorized training courses delivered by their largest training partner, about five altogether over my career. With the exception of one of those, it was obvious the instructor met the minimum requirements to deliver the course and in fact did not have exposure to the technology in a real world application.
I think I can vouch for the 99% of those actively studying for the CCIE lab (in any track) that are in hands-on support roles or are network engineers in the real world — WE WANT INSTRUCTORS TO HAVE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TECHNOLOGIES -AND- PRACTICAL APPLICATION OF THEM IN PRODUCTION ENVIRONMENTS!
#2 – Forget the associate and professional-level Cisco training — start developing Juniper professional and expert-level training material!!!
#3 – Someone PLEASE step-up and be the adult here and refrain from the vendor bashing…you all sound like high school girls, geez. :)